Episode 369 - Liz Rossof, RE/MAX Professionals

Transcript

EP369 - Rossof_mixdownV2Final

00:00:00 - Liz Rossof

Would it be weird if I rolled my desk out into, you know, parking lot on the weekends because it was on a corner, but like, most of the corner was the parking lot. So actually to get to the door and just be like, oh, I've got a quick question, was actually sort of a long way to go, so I'm like, I'm just going to go and be out on the street.

00:00:22 - Bill Risser

You're listening to the Real Estate Sessions podcast, and I'm your host, Bill Risser, Executive Vice President, Strategic Partnerships with RateMyAgent. RateMyAgent is not just for collecting reviews. It's a suite of powerful tools and features designed to help improve your online reputation and visibility while making it easier for new prospects to find you and reach out. For more information, head on over to RateMyAgent.com. Listen in as I interview industry leaders and get their stories and journeys to the world of real estate. Hi, everybody. Welcome to Episode 369 of the Real Estate Sessions podcast. As always, thank you so much for tuning in. Thank you so much for telling a friend. Today we're off to Denver, Colorado, and we're going to meet Liz Rossoff. Liz is with RE/MAX professionals, and she has quite an interesting background, interesting story prior to becoming a REALTOR, as so many of my guests have. So we're going to get into that a little bit. And if you don't know what a nook is or how important nooks can be in your life, you want to listen in. So let's get this thing started. Liz, welcome to the podcast.

00:01:24 - Liz Rossof

Thank you. I'm happy to be here.

00:01:26 - Bill Risser

Yeah, I'm very happy to have someone from RE/MAX Professionals in Denver. I don't know if you know this, but they're one of our first clients on RateMyAgent. So it's very exciting to see your name come through as an opportunity to interview. And so I'm just kind of thrilled that this is happening.

00:01:41 - Liz Rossof

Yeah, it's a great organization.

00:01:43 - Bill Risser

Yeah, you're right there. Where it all starts.

00:01:45 - Liz Rossof

Where it all starts with RE/MAX. Yes.

00:01:48 - Bill Risser

I like to dig into my guests past and kind of find out where they grew up and what they did before real estate, because 99% of agents definitely had something before real estate. Every now and then I run into that. No, my mom was a REALTOR and my grandpa was a REALTOR, and I'm a REALTOR. It happens every now and then. But let's start with you. And I know you have quite a history moving around and you know, the pains and joys of relocation there's kind of both. But let's start with the beginning. Where did you grow up?

00:02:19 - Liz Rossof

I grew up in downtown Chicago, actually. I was born in Texas, but my parents moved back to Illinois, back to Chicago when I was about two years old. And that's where both sides of my family are from.

00:02:32 - Bill Risser

All right, and does that mean when you say grew up there, you went to school there? High school, the whole nine yards. Living downtown in that big city, that has to be quite different.

00:02:40 - Liz Rossof

Yeah. Well, I did grow up in Lincoln park, which is quite nice. I grew up in apartment buildings, but learned how to take the bus with my older brother. I think I was allowed to take the bus with him by myself. Like at eight, I was taking the bus to camp, day camp at ten. I was lucky that school I went to was walking distance from my house. And also then when we moved a little bit further out from the school, my mom was a teacher there, so she was my school bus.

00:03:11 - Bill Risser

There you go.

00:03:11 - Liz Rossof

As well as my mom.

00:03:13 - Bill Risser

That works out really well. What's the biggest misconception about downtown Chicago?

00:03:19 - Liz Rossof

That people, you know, everyone thinks it's like a complete war zone, which it's not. I mean, certainly, violence has increased in that city, and it's such a tragedy. I haven't lived there, to be honest, for over 30 years, but I visit quite frequently, and my niece and nephew are growing up as young people in the city, and they're quite autonomous in getting around on their own on the bus and that sort of thing. And I definitely grew up with some city smarts. I unfortunately had my wallet stolen more than once when I was a kid, but I learned not to keep it on the outside pocket of your purse on a bus, you keep it tight on your person and you make sure that you're paying attention to where your things are. I can't imagine now with smartphones and cell phones, how distracted people are and how much easier it is to become a victim of opportunity. But it's such a wonderful city, and culturally, there are so many things that the city offers that are also free to the public. I think what's lovely about Chicago is that there are so many. Anytime anything is introduced, they find a way to make it accessible to the masses, like when the Divi bikes came out, which is a bike rental program in the city. They came out with a yearly subscription for lower income and city workers, and school teachers, which was something like $40 a year to be able to participate in that program, which was like $5 an hour if you didn't have that special membership. Yeah, it's a great town.

00:05:01 - Bill Risser

Give me one happy memory from just something where you go, wow, this is something I'll never forget. It's Chicago to me.

00:05:09 - Liz Rossof

Wow. So I lived across the street from Lincoln Park, the actual park Lazoo. And so, just being a kid, there was a big tree that we called the Climbing tree, and my best friend Asha, who also lived on the same floor of my apartment building, but in a separate entrance around the corner, she and I would go out there and climb in our tree, and it's still there. It's one of my favorite things to visit.

00:05:39 - Bill Risser

I love. Yeah, very few of my guests have that urban. We currently, my wife and I downsized into downtown of St. Petersburg. A very small community compared to Chicago, but we love it. We love the ability to walk to anything we want to walk. Yeah, it's great. It's just got to be different as a child, and millions have done it.

00:06:02 - Liz Rossof

Yeah. I think I wanted to retire to some mountaintop in the country and be super peaceful. And now I would really like to retire to a doorman building in New York.

00:06:13 - Bill Risser

There you go. Perfect.

00:06:15 - Liz Rossof

Where there's always someone looking out for me, and I can just walk downstairs and get a milk or whatever I need from the bodega.

00:06:23 - Bill Risser

That's awesome. We'll fast forward a little bit. Let's. Like many REALTORs, you were on a much different path as you headed off to school. Let's tell me, what was the plan for Liz as you were headed to university?

00:06:36 - Liz Rossof

Oh, boy. Well, I think the plan for Liz when she was headed to university was just to get out of really. I fell in love with California after seeing the movie Valley Girl. I was probably in fourth grade. I was just dead set on getting the California, so I went to California, but I thought I studied arts and theater and education, and I did pursue a career in art after college. I was really interested in sort of the themes and the symbols that a lot of contemporary artists were using that were really reflected in pre Colombian culture and also just sort of the human instinct to build that just kind of crosses all cultures. So I spent a lot of time in Latin America. I got a grant to be down there from the Watson Fellowship, and I was studying pre Columbian architecture. So I think at the time, when I left university or college and thinking about what my career might be, I really thought I was going to be like Indiana Jones.

00:07:50 - Bill Risser

I like Valley Girl. Indiana Jones, that's a great.

00:07:55 - Liz Rossof

Then, you know, ended up being a school teacher and artist in San Francisco for a long time.

00:08:01 - Bill Risser

That's awesome. Your last stop before real estate intrigued me as I was looking through kind of your path. And Beta brand looks really cool. I think it's a platform for artists, I think, but I'd love to get your take. Tell me a little bit about that company.

00:08:18 - Liz Rossof

Yeah. So when we started Beta brand, it was really founded on the idea to be a crowdsourced design clothing company. So opportunity, a platform where creative thinkers, whether they were fashion designers, quote unquote, or not, people who had ideas about how clothes should function and how clothes should work, could submit their idea, and people would vote them up or vote them down. And then every month we would take the top five, top ten, prototype them, and then actually crowdfund them. And we had to meet a minimum to be able to do the run of theM. And we had a lot of creative people in the company, a lot of people who knew how to write wonderful press releases and a lot of fun, sort of catchy products. The pinstriped executive hoodie that came out right after Mark Zuckerberg. Zuckerberg rang the NASDAq Bell in a hoodie and all of Wall street freaked out. Well, it was just perfect timing because we had this pinstriped hoodie, which was sort of an olive branch from the West coast to the East Coast. And we had dress pants, sweatpants, which was a long predated athleisure. And now we have technical fabrics and know everybody makes them. It's not a big deal anymore. And then we came out with a women's product, the dress pant, yoga pant, which now also is pretty much everybody makes something similar. And that went bananas. And our VCs and investors said, hey, we really like this. Let's just focus on this. So my role at the company was the director of the crowd design and crowdfunding part of the platform. And so that kind of went from being the shining star to sort of being not an afterthought, but less important as we focused on profitability. And so I left the company. I was asked to leave the company with about 40% of everybody else. I had the true startup experience in my years in San Francisco, I was the hardest and a school teacher, but the last seven years I was there, I really got to get all the accolades, the awards, and the gut punches of being in a startup.

00:10:46 - Bill Risser

So from there, though, we have to get you in real estate.

00:10:49 - Liz Rossof

Yeah.

00:10:50 - Bill Risser

So what was that moment? Usually there's some trigger.

00:10:54 - Liz Rossof

Yeah, well, so my partner had already moved to Denver. His family had been on a slow drip to Denver, as his sister had children in California. And it was clearly going to be an easier place to be in Denver, where her husband is from, to raise a family. California is very expensive. And then my partner's parents wanted to be close to grandchildren, and then my partner wanted to be near parents, and so he took a job out here while I was still at Beta brand. And I said to we, if you really want to be out here for five years, we should buy a place because there's no point in you paying rent in two cities, so let's buy a place in Denver. And really, the week after we closed is when I was let go from, okay, the man I love and the dog I love are in Denver, and the house I just bought are in Denver, so maybe I should move there. So I moved out to Denver and spent some time just trying to figure out what I wanted to do and where I wanted to be in terms of my career. And my mom, who is just the best person and knows me better than anybody else, said, you should really consider getting your real estate license. You have always been obsessed with the real estate market, which is very true. Ever since I was a kid, I would read every single line of the real estate section, mostly because it wasn't narrative. I have dyslexia, and it was like bullet points and color pictures. I'm very good with math. I'm very good with space. Odd because I'm dyslexic, but I actually am quite good with spatial understanding. I'm great with maps. And Denver's like Chicago. It's a grid system city. And when I was a kid, I knew all about neighborhoods how much it costs to live there and what you would need to make to be able to afford a house like that and what the architecture was like. Chicago is a big architecture. Like, New Yorkers all know what's going on in theater and art. Californians all know the difference between Arugula and some other lettuce by the time they're know. But Chicagoans know architecture. It doesn't matter if you know the CEO of an architecture company or like the guy that drives the garbage truck. You all know Amiz Vandero. You all know the different kinds of architecture in the city. So my mom suggested, while you have a little bit of severance from Beta brand and you have a little bit of time, get your real estate. She actually paid for my real estate school, which was $750, and then my real estate school would pay for your exam if you passed it. The first time. So they'd give you $40 back if you passed it the first time. And I did. And then I found where to hang my license, and I chose RE/MAX professionals in the city properties office because it was a perfect fit for me. It was a very lovely, lovely office, great mentors, really top notch people with a ton of experience who were also very friendly and ready to answer questions and give referrals and offer ride alongs. And it was a wonderful place for me to land.

00:14:20 - Bill Risser

So your first year then was ideal. Right? Because you had this nurturing, this place that cared about brand new agents, because that's not every brokerage. Sometimes, sometimes it's just, here you go, here's some phone numbers, or go do this. You actually had guidance. That's great. Talk a little bit about that.

00:14:37 - Liz Rossof

Yeah. Well, I think it was also really good timing. Our managing broker at that office at the time had made it very clear that he was ramping up toward retirement and was ready to give a lot of referrals, which I was the recipient of, which is great. We were on a street that had a lot of foot traffic, so I would actually roll my desk out onto the street on the weekends with dog biscuits and water and cookies and lemonade, and I set up a sort of like, Lucy and the peanuts. Ask me anything. Real estate lemonade stand. We called it my lemonade stand.

00:15:21 - Bill Risser

Now, were there some agents who went, what is Liz doing? Or.

00:15:25 - Liz Rossof

No? They all thought I asked the managing, said, would you, would it be weird if I rolled my desk out into parking lot on the weekends because it was on a corner, but most of the corner was the parking lot. So actually to get to the door and just be like, oh, I've got a quick question. Was actually sort of a long way to go. So I'm like, I'm just going to go and be out on the street. I love ducks. I'm going to meet all the dogs. I'm going to meet all the dog owners.

00:15:52 - Bill Risser

Beautiful marketing. That's awesome.

00:15:55 - Liz Rossof

Yeah. And there are like, one, two, there's now, because that office no longer exists, and there's an apartment building there. But at the time, there were four really big apartment buildings on the street. So there were people who are renting very high rent. It's a very trendy street. And there I was available to talk to them about what it would mean to become a homeowner. And so I got my first four or five buyers that year for just parking myself on, just making myself available. Essentially, open house never really worked for me, I always felt like a vulture. Oh, hey, do you have a red love? You got an agent. It was just too much. But if I just sort of set up my thing and was like, hey, I'm Liz. I've got answers. What are your questions?

00:16:42 - Bill Risser

That's amazing. What year was this? When did you get started in real estate?

00:16:46 - Liz Rossof

So that was. I guess it was 2017. Fall. So, like the end of 2017.

00:16:53 - Bill Risser

Okay, that's cool. You've created a really cool brand. I want to talk about that because I love the name. But first, before we get there. Somehow you developed a passion for helping first time home buyers or looking at a renter who maybe doesn't realize you're this close, you can become a first time home buyer. Where'd that come from?

00:17:17 - Liz Rossof

I think it came from being beat up in the San Francisco rental market for 25 years.

00:17:24 - Bill Risser

Sure.

00:17:25 - Liz Rossof

I think I just think about all the money and the stress of being a renter and not really having the agency to be able to fix the kitchen. I asked my last landlord, I'm like, well, if you give me a ten year lease, I will remodel the kitchen for you.

00:17:44 - Bill Risser

Wow.

00:17:44 - Liz Rossof

He wasn't into it.

00:17:47 - Bill Risser

Nice.

00:17:49 - Liz Rossof

He gave me really great rent. He was right down the street from me. And when I called him to tell him I was leaving, I was like, Mr. G, you're going to be able to increase this rent. You're going to be so excited. You're going to make twice. And he said, yeah. Do you know anyone that's like you that just is going to take care of things and not bother me? I don't mind keeping the rent the same if I can find someone who takes good care of the property anyway. I just think seeing how other people were able to create so much wealth and so much independence in property ownership. And I had always sort of thought like, well, maybe I'll get into real estate when I lived in San Francisco. But the rat race in San Francisco is such a way. Like, I never had the break to be able to start up the business. Also, I worked a lot of weekends before I started working at Beta Brand. I was a governess and I was a teacher, and I worked a lot of weekends. I didn't have that time to sit open homes, let alone take school at night. It didn't work. Never had the opportunity to take a pause and try to establish a new business. So it's really that wealth building aspect that I love, getting people on that ride. Just get on that escalator. Let's go. You're going to be amazed with what happens to you.

00:19:21 - Bill Risser

Yeah, even with ups and downs. Just maintain. Just hang in there. It's a long play, and you're young at the time, so. Yeah, that's great. You have a great phrase called Creative House hacking. Can you explain that to the listeners? I love that.

00:19:35 - Liz Rossof

Yeah, well, it also comes out of living in a pressure cooker of San Francisco, where you really just chased down leases which were usually held by one person because there's really strict tenant rights in San Francisco. So you would try to find someone that had a lease on a place that was 20 years old. So a bedroom was only $800 a month instead of $2,000 a month. But roommates. I had roommates until I moved to Denver. I had roommates until I was 43 years old. It wasn't unusual to have roommates. So when we bought in Denver, we went out and we saw a few homes, and we couldn't believe the prices. We were just like, is that the down payment? And they're like, no, that's the whole price of the house. We're like, oh, we can figure out how to make this work. We saw a bunch of homes, and there was one that was sort of like, I don't know, not really that excited about it. I woke up in the morning, I was like, Cameron, we can rent the basement out. And he was like, what are you talking? I was like, yeah, let's figure out if we can rent the basement out. It was interesting because our REALTOR at the time, she was like, oH, you can probably get like five, $600 for the basement, maybe. I was like, I think we can get a lot more than that. We got the start. We got, like $900 for the basement. We made a little kitchenette. It wasn't like a big kitchen. It was a six month lease. It was people who were just getting their footing in Denver. But we had probably 18 applications for this little teeny garden part of our basement. And then when those tenants left and I had moved to the city, I'm like, well, let's try this short term rental thing. And then, boom. Every month, not only was our mortgage covered, but also our utilities. And it was just awesome. Totally perfect. And I'm like, ha ha. Now I'm like that guy whose rent I paid for seven years, that 80 year old guy who was renting out rooms.

00:21:48 - Bill Risser

It's got to start somewhere. It's got to start somewhere.

00:21:51 - Liz Rossof

They hold the keys to this. And it was so great, in fact, that when COVID hit and we were either going to separate or get a bigger house. We were going to either have to figure out a way to use that space for ourselves, which at that point, we couldn't even really wrap our heads around because we had already gotten used to only living on the top floor. It was weird to think about how we would start occupying the bottom floor, but because we had this rent roll, it no longer affected our debt to income ratio, and we could move on to the next house without having to sell that house, which was awesome. And so anyway, we got a long term tenant in there. We ended up buying a bigger house that has, like, a legitimate in law AdU in our basement with its own entrance. And again, it's a much bigger house. We don't quite cover our entire mortgage every month, but we come real close to it, so that's a great way to do it. But also, I have people who are just friends who've paired up to invest in property together, which one of my smartest friends in San Francisco did in, like, 1989. And I couldn't. Or not. 89, 98. I'm not quite that old. She did it in 1998 with a bunch of her girlfriends from college. I was like, oh, wow. You're just like, the three of you bought that flat together.

00:23:19 - Bill Risser

Like, oh, that was paid off very well.

00:23:21 - Liz Rossof

Later, they sold it, and they all bought their own homes. So smart.

00:23:28 - Bill Risser

And every market is local. It's all different around the country. But we're definitely in a weird time. We won't even discuss. We're recording this a couple of days after the Stitzer Nar Ver verdict was announced, which has a whole lot of people in lots of different places and spaces. And some people say it's no big deal. Others are calling it Armageddon. Well, we won't deal with that. But one thing that is for sure, it's a tough market right now, right? I mean, as a REALTOR. You've been a REALTOR now for seven years. Eight years. Oh, I'm sorry. 17. I kept thinking 15. Yeah, sorry, my bad. Math. I'm glad you're good with math, Liz. That's great. Look, inventory is kind of tight in most places. The rates just went up again. They're, like, cracking through 8%. What are you doing right now with this new world? I guess we'll call it. And we know it's only temporary. Everything's kind of fluid.

00:24:24 - Liz Rossof

Yeah, well, things definitely have slowed down compared to the madness that we were experiencing during COVID It was unhealthy. It was unhealthy for so many different reasons, but on a personal level, it was just unhealthy. It's too fast, too much, too much. And so things have slowed down. But I think that really getting with the buyers and talking through with them what it means right now to be in the market to buy right now, it means you're looking at more options than you've had the opportunity to look at for the past five years. There's more inventory sitting on the market. There's more possibility for assistance with buy downs and all that sort of thing. You're going to have more leveraging power when it comes to your inspections where you know what you needed a new roof two years ago. Find a way to get it done because the next person is going to tell them they don't want them to have it fixed. Now that's a reasonable ask. When you have a bad roof, it is quite reasonable that the seller pay for that repair. When you have a broken sewer line, it is quite reasonable for the seller to make those repairs. Two years ago they wouldn't because they could find a buyer who would cover it. So you have an opportunity to have more selection, less competition, more negotiating power. And if you can qualify for that monthly payment, it may not be your perfect house, it might not be where you want to be in five years, but it doesn't have to be because if you can make those monthly payments comfortably, just get in it now. And as soon as those rates start to level off, people get more comfortable with them or knock on woods start coming down, more buyers will enter the market and that will create another surge in pricing. It may not create the surge of 40% in two years that we saw in a lot of neighborhoods in Denver. That's unrealistic to. Very unreal to happen again anytime soon. But you're going to have the upper hand if you can make it work right now. It's a little bit harder to make it work right now. We've got to get creative, but we can get creative and we can find ways to get you started.

00:27:02 - Bill Risser

I mean, it's funny. They're still going to be. In the heyday, the country came close to 6 million sales. It was some really huge number just out of whack. And we're still going to sell four and a half million this year. Even in what people are calling a down market, there are people that there are reasons where homes are always going to need to be bought and sold. Right. Whether it's families forming or families tearing apart with a divorce or death or whatever. There's always going to be this movement. And like you said, if you can find a way to get in it now, the long term view of that is going to be really positive. I love that.

00:27:41 - Liz Rossof

That's great.

00:27:41 - Bill Risser

Good. I'll ask you. We're kind of getting close to wrapping up here, but are there some common myths that you help buyers with? Like when you talk to a buyer, and especially if it's a first time home buyer, they may have talked to a few people. And now with the Internet and all the TV shows, people are a little bit more up to speed. But what are some of the common things you have to kind of gently tell your buyers? Oh, yeah. That's not really the way it is.

00:28:08 - Liz Rossof

Well, I mean, honestly, the hardest things to talk to them about are the ads that are incorrect. And when they see something on zillow that has just missed one or two home payments, and Zillow has it up there as a pre foreclosure on the amount owed, the bank and I get a call and they're furious with me because I've been showing them homes for $700,000 in this neighborhood, and here's this gorgeous house, and it's only 285. So what kind of broker am I? And then I have to tell them, one, it's not even available. Two, that's the amount of money that they owe the bank, not the amount of money that they're going to sell the house for, if they even decide to sell the house. So combating sort of a lot of the clickbait that exists out there is very challenging. Honestly, I don't run into too many people who don't understand the value of having a broker working on their behalf, although I anticipate that I have had people like, well, why would I work, why should I work with you when Redfin will give me $2,000 at the closing table or something like that? And I think as a result of this decision that we just talked about, I heard that Redfin is no longer going to have salaried positions. But I don't know if that's true. It's just a rumor. But part of my response has been, well, like, I don't know. I've got skin in this game with you. I'm here with you. I'm invested in this. I don't get paid until we get to the closing table. I want this for you as much. Clearly, I work on your behalf, and I'll help you make decisions that are to your behalf. And I have told clients to walk away from many properties after inspections. And I have told clients that I don't think we should offer any more money on that house right now because it's not worth it or it won't be worth it in a couple of years. BuT I'm here to work for them. I have skin in the game, and I want to get to the end. I want to get them to that next place. And so why work with someone who's making $30 an hour when you can work with someone who's like, there is no limit to it? Just recently, in my own neighborhood, I saw this home. That was a terrible flip, I hate to say. And I don't want to talk bad about anything but this house. I walked through this house, and I nearly fell down the stairs because they didn't do a good job. And I was like, well, who in the world actually bought this house? And what did they buy it for? Because I thought, oh, well, someone bought it for a good deal, hopefully. I saw it sold for over a million dollars. I was like, what in the world? And then I looked on Redfin. It was like, bought by Redfin. And I was like, I would not have let a client buy that house. It's right down the street from me. That sale is going to help my property value. There's so many things that are good for me to have personally, to have me have that home sell for over a million dollars. But it's nothing I would ever tell a client they should buy.

00:31:23 - Bill Risser

Liz, I have to ask you about Denver Nook and your definition of Nook. It's so cool. So let's talk about how you created this. I'm going to call it a brand, right?

00:31:33 - Liz Rossof

Yeah, it is. It's a brand. It's a brand. And we were remodeling our kitchen last year, and the Craftsman bungalow is a real. You see them everywhere, all over Denver. And they're more or less the same, and some are smaller and some are bigger, but they more or less were the same layout to begin with. And over the past 110 years, they've all been remodeled and rearranged on the inside in very unique ways. And what had been the nook like, the little kitchen nook inside of these kitchens, you now see has become storage, or it has become not a seating area, but it's where the oven now is, or it's where the refrigerator now is. Or they've completely blocked it off and created a stairwell to the basement. It's hard to see them in their original condition or their original intention. So when we were remodeling the kitchen, this back section of the kitchen had become like woman of the house desk or something. It was like this weird built in desk in the kitchen that was very popular in the 80s through the early aughts. I'm like, who sits there and does bills or writes recipe cards? I don't know. This is really bizarre. So took that whole piece out and built in benches and created a new nook. And I was like, I love the Denver Nook. And then it was just like, Denver Nook. Denver Nook is great. I love this name because it's know emblematic of cozy and finding your niche. It's like know niche. And even the new build construction that has a window bench or has something like that. Whenever I walk into a home with a buyer and there is a nook, it doesn't go unnoticed. And it's usually observed with delight. Oh, there's a nook. That's something that brings joy to everybody.

00:33:37 - Bill Risser

And it's fun to say, yeah, that's great. I love that. Yeah, the Craftsman is huge. I'm in St. Petersburg, Florida. Same thing here. Boy, you go through the old neighborhoods and that same look with that front porch. I mean, it's really cool. Lots of two bedroom, two baths that you see in those crafts. Yeah, that's awesome. Well, look, I'm going past the time I've asked of you, so I'm going to give you this final question I've asked every guest since day one. And that is what one piece of advice would you give a new agent? Just getting started.

00:34:10 - Liz Rossof

Find great mentors. Yeah. Find great mentors.

00:34:16 - Bill Risser

Yeah. They can set you off on a path that's just fantastic. Right? It just makes it easier for sure. Because it's not easy that first year, right?

00:34:25 - Liz Rossof

No, it is not. Find great mentors and don't be afraid to put your desk out on the street.

00:34:31 - Bill Risser

Yeah. You're the first person to give me that answer. So that's a special bonus for the bonus answer. The desk on the street. That might be mentioned somewhere in some marketing when I start publishing advertising for this episode. Liz, you've been fantastic. If someone wants to reach out to you, what's the best way for them to do that?

00:34:52 - Liz Rossof

Yeah, they can just email me, liz@denvernook.com.

00:34:58 - Bill Risser

Thank you so much for your time today. Continued success. I hope you run into a few more nooks before the year ends.

00:35:06 - Liz Rossof

Thank you.

00:35:07 - Bill Risser

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