RESW - Thad Wong and Mike Golden, co-Founders and co CEO’s of @properties and Co CEO’s of Christie’s International Real Estate

00:00:00 - Bill Risser

Hi, everybody, and welcome to another real estate sessions rewind episode. This week we venture back to February of 2023 where we had Thad Wong and Mike golden, co CEO's of @properties and Christie's international real estate. I really enjoyed interviewing Mike and Thad. They have a great relationship. It's evident in the episode. And I think you're gonna enjoy this if you've missed it the first time. So let's get this thing going. Enjoy.

00:00:24 - Thad Wong

Do I have a close relationship with those that I work with? And do I feel better about myself working at this entity than another? And so when you talk about culture and relationships, love that piece of it, that to a lot of people is more important than anything else because not everybody can rely on getting that at home. So if you can get it at the office and you can build strong relationships and you can have that component filled while you're also being inspired and coached to be the best you can be on the field, it's really the best of all worlds.

00:01:04 - Bill Risser

You're listening to the Real Estate Sessions podcast and I'm your host, Bill Riser, executive vice president, strategic partnerships with Ratemyagent. Ratemyagent is not just for collecting reviews. It's a suite of powerful tools and features designed to help improve your online reputation and visibility while making it easier for new prospects to find you and reach out. For more information. Head on over to ratemyagent.com. Listen in as I interview industry leaders and get their stories and journeys to the world of real estate. Everybody, welcome to episode 344 of the Real Estate Sessions podcast. As always, thank you so much for tuning in. Thank you so much for telling a friend. Today we have a couple of guests on the podcast. We're going to be talking to the co founders and co ceos of @properties. I'm talking about Thad Wong and Mike golden. They've been together over 25 years. They've guided their company through all sorts of different markets. And, man, when it comes to technology, when it comes to solving that problem of how do you handle it? From contract to close, these guys have it nailed. I can't wait to get started. Thad and Mike, welcome to the podcast.

00:02:12 - Mike Golden

Thank you. Thanks for having us.

00:02:14 - Thad Wong

Thank you, Bill. It's a pleasure being here.

00:02:16 - Bill Risser

Yeah, it's really exciting to have you both on the show. Thad, I got a chance to say hi to you. It was the t 360 summit this past spring and you were kind enough to say yes. Thank you so much for doing this. First things first, I like to find out where my guests come from. Right. I think that I know what. Obviously you're both in Chicago, you've been there a long time, but I don't think either of you are natives of Chicago land. So, Mike, I'll start with you. Where'd you grow up and what got you to Chicago?

00:02:44 - Mike Golden

So I grew up just outside of Boston. So I'm east coast by birth and lived there basically through high school and then college. I took a job and randomly ended up in the Chicagoland area when I got out of college and just kind of stayed.

00:03:02 - Bill Risser

Thad, how about you?

00:03:06 - Thad Wong

I grew up in Minneapolis and with my mom and my dad lived in Michigan. So when I went off to college, it was nice. Chicago was close to both Minneapolis and Michigan, so I could be close to two different homes and be away from home at the same time.

00:03:20 - Bill Risser

How did you get to Chicago, though? I mean, was it for school? Was it for work? What brought you down there, really?

00:03:27 - Thad Wong

A girl? It was school, but school would never be that important. But it was this fantastic girlfriend I had at the time and she was going and so I, of course, went. And it was a good choice for that period of life.

00:03:41 - Bill Risser

All right, that makes sense. There are about ten realtors of the 340 I've interviewed that knew they were going to be a realtor at the age of 15. They just knew that was their life's journey. I'm going to assume that wasn't the case for both of you and that you did something else before real estate. So that I'll go back to you on this one. First, what was before real estate?

00:04:04 - Thad Wong

Well, I don't know if it was before real estate because I worked at the trading floor with the mercantile exchange during the day and I finished my college degree at night. So I was in night school to get educated. And real estate was really my first job out of college. But I did a lot of things before that for sure.

00:04:21 - Bill Risser

Yeah. Mike, how about you?

00:04:24 - Mike Golden

My path was definitely a little different when I got out of college. I took a job with a consulting firm and that's kind of how I came to Chicago originally. I was working in an office in Connecticut and then transferred out to the Chicagoland area and I ended up kind of staying. So I got into real estate part time to kind of make some extra money when I thought I was going to go back to business school and just got into it and never got out of it. But it definitely wasn't a career path choice originally. Back when we started being a real estate broker, wasn't exactly a cool profession. Like the last thing a 20 something year old wanted to go to a party is tell someone they were a realtor. Stop the conversation real fast. If you were trying to get a date. So I never imagined myself staying in it full time, but I got into it and loved it and met Thad, and we started working together. And here we are 26 years later between the two of us.

00:05:16 - Bill Risser

That's awesome. Let me ask you a question. You come to Chicago in the 90s, which, as a sports fan, would just seem to me to be like the epicenter of the sports world with probably one of the greatest athletes of all time kind of dominating the scene, except for that weird little two year hiatus that you decided to try to play baseball. But talk about MJ and the Bulls, but you both came from other mean. So how did you handle that? Were you still a Celtics fan, Mike? We'll say. Or was it t wolves for youth?

00:05:43 - Thad Wong

Ed?

00:05:43 - Bill Risser

Then you got here and you switched. What happened as you got to Chicago? I'll let you guys just kind of hammer this one.

00:05:51 - Mike Golden

Anyway, so I'm still a Red Sox fan. Maybe not as diehard as I was when I was a kid. And a. You know, when I was growing up, they were both pretty bad. Or when they were good, they still were bad. But I'm a converted Blackhawks fan. I think the Wirts family has done a lot of great things for Chicago, and I love the team and love know, as far as the Celtics, I was a, you know, but I was not a huge basketball fan when I was a kid, so I was much more. Baseball, football were my sports. And that I watched. Didn't play, but watched anyway.

00:06:25 - Thad Wong

In coming to Chicago, that was really the beginning of my love of basketball. I'd never been a big basketball fan except going to Spartans games with my dad growing up. And so it was really MJ that introduced basketball to me. Now it's my favorite sport to track. And so watching Michael Jordan live at the United center for me was just probably some of my greatest sports memories because there was nothing else. You couldn't go to any stadium, any arena, any field, and have the same feeling you had if you were in a stadium with Michael Jordan on the court.

00:07:01 - Bill Risser

Yeah. So I have to ask you this question. Is that diehard Michael Jordan guy? We're recording this the day after LeBron passed Kareem for the total points record for a career. And I swear today on Twitter and some other places, I saw the word goat assigned close to LeBron. How do you handle that?

00:07:23 - Thad Wong

Did anybody ever claim that Kareem was the.

00:07:29 - Mike Golden

Don'T. I don't think anyone is comparable to.

00:07:32 - Thad Wong

It's so like beating Kareem's all time scoring title has a lot more to do with duration, et cetera, than it does being the greatest of all time. There are a number of players better than Kareem, and unless you sat in a stadium and watched Michael Jordan play and knew at any given moment you would see magic. And I've seen a number of games live with LeBron James, many more than I saw Michael Jordan. And there is no comparison. LeBron James does not have the ability to fly. He doesn't. He has the ability to muscle his way through the court. And also, I would argue if you look at the number of games that were lost because of not late in the game, in the game or early in the game, missed free mean, nobody ever talks about that. But LeBron is reliably unreliable when it counts on the free throw line. If you're the number one best in the world ever, you're the most reliable when it counts. So there's so many things you can go on between the two, but it's not even close. And if you look at enjoyable players to watch, you'd rather watch Kobe than LeBron. Kobe is a much more, even though I'm not a fan of him personally, but Kyrie, I'd way rather watch Kyrie. That style of dance basketball is so much more enjoyable than crash, than slam up, get a layup and get fouled.

00:08:55 - Bill Risser

But I'm glad I asked that question. That was a great answer. And Mike, look, as a kid who grew up in San Diego and never won a championship in anything, I know the Boston area went through some really dark days, 19, eight, whatever it was for the, for the last World Series, but to have the run you had from 2000 to call it 2020 was unbelievable. And no one's going to feel bad for all those years that you guys didn't win. Would you agree with that?

00:09:27 - Mike Golden

I would agree that no one's feeling bad for us anytime, right? Mean, again, our teams are not what they were. But yes, we had an incredible run. I didn't live there to experience it, but experienced it from afar. But it was fun. It was fun. And yes, no one should feel bad for us. San Diego, they can feel bad for San Diego.

00:09:48 - Bill Risser

Yeah. Except, and the Celtics.

00:09:50 - Thad Wong

Now, if you're a basketball fan, you got to love watching the Celtics.

00:09:53 - Mike Golden

Yeah, they're a great team.

00:09:53 - Thad Wong

They're my favorite teams to watch. Marcus smart might be one of my. He's one of my top five players.

00:10:00 - Bill Risser

And with Kyrie leaving and going to Dallas, that's one less team to worry about, to be honest. I mean, we'll see how that goes. All right, well, I could make this whole podcast about sports. We could just sit here all day, and it sounds like you guys could do it. But I got to get to the other stuff. I already get yelled at. Other stuff. The important stuff. Some of the important stuff. But first, I want to ask you this. You guys going together a long time, obviously, how tight you are and the relationship and the camaraderie is really fun for me to see for the first time, I'm meeting you both at the same time. But there had to be, like, 25 or 26 years ago. There had to be. When you first started working together, did you kind of go like that? Did you kind of go, kind of go. Well, I'm not too sure about Mike, this one thing or Mike vice versa. You kind of went about something about that. I'd love to hear you both share that right here, because I'm assuming you've never heard this on a podcast interview before.

00:10:59 - Thad Wong

I got a good answer for this one.

00:11:01 - Mike Golden

All right, go ahead.

00:11:02 - Thad Wong

Do you have a clear one, golden? There was only one time I questioned Michael Golden's judgment. One time and one time only. And that had to do with a choice of girlfriend. And that was the only time I ever questioned his judgment. And I voiced it to him and.

00:11:20 - Mike Golden

Made it super clear, and he was 100% accurate. And we won't go any deeper than that.

00:11:30 - Bill Risser

Mike, this is your chance to reply.

00:11:34 - Mike Golden

You know what? The only issue I ever had with fad is when he wore the pinky ring. Do you remember?

00:11:40 - Thad Wong

Yeah. It's a very tradition. It's very classic. You being from the east coast, I thought you would enjoy that sense of style.

00:11:51 - Mike Golden

Yeah, it was a pinky.

00:11:56 - Thad Wong

It was like.

00:11:57 - Mike Golden

Remember? I remember. But at the moment in time, it was not the right time right now. You could get away with it.

00:12:04 - Thad Wong

Nantucket, along the seaside, at a golf club. It would have been the perfect apparel.

00:12:09 - Mike Golden

100%. But we were in Chicago.

00:12:15 - Bill Risser

All right, this is great. Let's get to @properties, because this is an amazing thing you've created and kind of cultivated and grown over the last two and a half decades. So let's start with, how did that come about? What made you decide to. We're going to do this. We're going to create a brokerage, and then for probably the 1,000,000th time, can you explain the @properties name.

00:12:43 - Mike Golden

Why don't you do the name?

00:12:45 - Thad Wong

Okay, so the name, we've said this a thousand times because people ask. It was really unique. But in all truth, when we started, all of the other brokerages were the names of brokerage Caldwell, banker, Baird and Warner. They all incorporated someone's name. And the one thing we knew is we wanted to build something bigger than ourselves. And the other thing we knew is that the name Golden Wong would be a terrible logo. So we decided to go with something different.

00:13:13 - Bill Risser

Cool. And how about launching that brokerage, Mike?

00:13:17 - Mike Golden

You mean why?

00:13:19 - Bill Risser

Yeah, why?

00:13:20 - Mike Golden

It was a lot of happenstance, really. Thad and I were working together. We were the equivalent of a team before teams was even a word in our business. And we didn't call ourselves a team. We were just business partners. And we did what we tell all of our agents not to do. We just kind of jumped in. We're 50 50 pretty much from the get go and never kind of looked back. We had a client who was a developer. We did a lot of development represent work, so we marketed larger loft, adaptive reuse projects, high rises, eventually, and we had a client who didn't like the guy that we worked for and basically came to us and offered his business to us if we left, but said that if we didn't leave, he was going to go somewhere else. And I think it was much more about the fact that he didn't like the guy we worked for versus how much he liked us. But it was an opportunity and we didn't really know any better. So we just said, we'll try doing it on our own. And it worked out pretty well. But there have been bumps in the road over the years, but we've always been able to figure it out.

00:14:24 - Bill Risser

Let's talk about a couple of things. As I was doing some research to kind of figure out what I wanted to find out about you and the company. But, man, the words, relationships, culture, that sort of thing popped up over and over and over. And, Thad, I think this question may be directed your way from the research I did. Why is that so important?

00:14:48 - Thad Wong

Well, our industry is, we're not selling a product and we don't have employees. We have independent contractors. And the independent contractors have a fundamental piece where they say, am I paying the right price for the value that you're providing? So you have ThAt equation. The other side of the equation is, do I have a close relationship with those that I work with, and do I feel better about myself working at this entity than another? And so when you talk about culture and relationships, love ThAt piece of it. That to a lot of people was more important than anything else because not everybody can rely on getting that at home. So if you can get it at the office and you can build strong relationships and you can have that component filled while you're also being inspired and coached to be the best you can be on the field, it's really the best of all worlds if you can get that done. I think I attribute a lot of our culture to explain on how we withstood the pressure compass had for a few years. The amount of money they were throwing at people to get them to join, even our leadership team. We have the most sought after leadership team, I'd say, in the country. And nobody of substance left for compass. No one. And part of that was, I think a big piece of that was the relationship, because compass was more than willing to buy a date, right? They were more than willing to buy your spouse, your girlfriend, your boyfriend. It was like that movie with Paul Newman where he know Woody Harrelson's girlfriend. It was LiKe that indecent proposal. That's what Compass's book, when it comes out, or Harvard Business review study class could be indecent proposal. That's really what it.

00:16:37 - Bill Risser

Was.

00:16:37 - Thad Wong

Robert Redford, you have to have a lot of close relationships based on authenticity, history, care, consistency to withstand that amount of that indecent proposal.

00:16:51 - Bill Risser

I think the word culture is used a lot today. Do you think that it's just kind of a buzzword for a lot of people as opposed to what you just described?

00:17:02 - Mike Golden

I think everyone uses it because it's so important, but I don't know that a lot of people live it, that they walk the walk. Culture truly has been the foundation of who we have been since we started. And part of it is because we worked in an environment that didn't have a great culture. And we recognized that if we're going to work at that time, 60, 70 hours a week, seven days a week, we wanted at least a place to go that was positive for us and positive for the people around us. But I think everyone uses the word culture because it's very in vogue. It's very important, but I think a lot of people don't really actually execute on it. Sorry.

00:17:41 - Bill Risser

Makes sense.

00:17:42 - Thad Wong

Yeah. When you have a real culture, you don't have to talk about it. You know, the companies that have robust cultures because they have great retention, they have fabulous growth. You see agents posting and talking about the joys that they experience while being involved in the organization you don't really have to explain to somebody your culture. If you have a culture, it's kind of like a personality.

00:18:05 - Bill Risser

Yeah, okay, that's a good analogy. 15 years ago, we hit the dark days. That's all. Just call it the dark days. Was culture a big piece of getting you through that? Or how did @properties survive or even thrive through those times during that period?

00:18:22 - Thad Wong

When you talk about the dark days, they were the darkest days for the agents. At the end of the day, that's who was really experiencing the greatest shock. And so our innate responsibility, from a cultural perspective, from a leadership perspective, to offer guidance and support during that period, was paramount to our success. So we created a program to educate agents on finances, to make sure they're solvent, to make sure they're saving for the future, or if we had to usher them through bankruptcy. And then we also created programs around opportunity and marketing to go deeper into capturing the share that there was existence so that they could experience abundance when the market shifted. So I thought it was, for us, it was a true test on our leadership ability to be able to come up with programming that would be applicable during a downturn, but have the same amount of energy and attractiveness from the agents to get participation, to grow the culture. During a dark age.

00:19:22 - Mike Golden

We also focused heavily on the relationships, making sure people didn't feel like they were alone, because that's the hardest part in our business, is as independent contractors. Everyone can feel like they're on an island. And when it's really bad, like it was in eight, nine, that period of time, you feel even more isolated because you don't have as much going on. You're stressed about your personal world. And I think fad and I, we each did two lunches a week, at least, with 15 to 18 agents. And we invited. Every one of our agents got invited to lunch over the course of six months. And it was more bringing everyone together and just talking about what was going on and making sure people knew that they weren't alone, and then talking about what they could do to help their business. And it was just focused on them and the relationship, because that's all we have in our business. We have no assets except for people. And so we focused totally on our people. And I guess you could say it was cultural, but it was much more of just our number one core value is how our relationships are everything for us. And that's what we focused on. And it paid off for us huge because we had the best growth in the downturn and coming out than we've ever had.

00:20:30 - Bill Risser

Wow, it speaks volumes what type of leaders you are. App properties, I think, is synonymous with technology. You guys embrace technology in a big way, but you call yourself, are you early adopters of things that you see, or are you more wait and see? Do you kind of build your own or do you add to a stack? What does it look like?

00:20:49 - Thad Wong

Well, I think that it's different. I don't think you want to be an early adopter on everything that has to do with technology. But at the same time, we're a little bit different because we have our own technology team, we have a large engineering team, and we've built all of our own technology for the last 15 years. So part of it is a process and building upon the stack to achieve a single sign on fully integrated platform that saves the agent a tremendous amount of time and offers convenience and hopefully in the future, opportunity for the consumer. So it's not in some ways, we're the first to do a lot of things, but they're not to do the things that are fancy, that are involved in, let's say, social media or content creation. We do a lot of that manually, but it's really, we're the first at creating the overall process to go from contract to close and what's now pre contract to post close and having a full integrated system with everything from a digital listing presentation, open house tool, integrated CMA. Because we built the deal management system that is like a docusign, like a skysclope that so many of our competitors still use and integrate their software into. We actually have everything souped to nuts because we built the spine of the organization first and then added everything on afterwards.

00:22:10 - Mike Golden

I would say it's sort of like the tortoise and the hair kind of. When technology sort of became in vogue in early 2000s, we didn't a have the money to pour into it at the time. We also recognized that the return on investment wasn't there. It was too expensive. So we let other people go out there, spend a lot of money, burn a lot of money trying to figure it out. But then, as we see the opportunity, as dad said, we've developed this platform that's a complete end to end solution. It's what everyone else talks about, but we did it, and we've done it over the last 1314 years. And for us, we'll continue to win the race because we're very careful about where we invest, but we also totally see the value of technology. Again, remember, Thad and I were practitioners. I mean, we were salespeople. Now, obviously we've been out of that game for a while, but we really did fundamentally understand what the real estate agent was dealing with, what they needed, what they didn't need, what they struggled with, because we were them for many, many years. And now we focus heavily on continuing to understand what their new needs are and then just adapting our program around that.

00:23:13 - Bill Risser

If I had a nickel for every time I heard somebody say, hey, we've got contract to close, we got it wired, but they don't. You talked about that spine. Is that platform, or can you explain to me what you're doing there? Because I think this is how that thing got started and how it's being deployed. A lot of people are talking about that.

00:23:30 - Thad Wong

Yeah, platform. We've used it internally at app properties for 50 years. And when we partnered with Ansley in Georgia, that was the first time we integrated the full system into another state. And the same with Sereno in San Francisco and then with @properties franchisees in Dallas, Detroit, Indianapolis and Lacrosse. And the thesis behind Christie's was, okay, now we have this fabulous, internationally recognized luxury brand that everybody would love to be a part of when it comes to selling real estate. Because you walk into a house and you say, I'm within Christie's international real estate network, it brings you an astronomical amount of credibility because of the brand recognition. But unlike other brands that have a lot of that are known worldwide, we're coming at it where we have this enormous infrastructure of value proposition. We can give an affiliate, so we can give you a platform which will eliminate all of your other needs for technology that's owned by a brokerage, built by brokers, serving brokers, so that it's going to grow as time goes. And so it's kind of like getting the cars these days. The automatic updates of your software go on when you turn off your car and it's parked in the garage at night. Same with platform. So all the users of platforms get the gradual upgrades that come every single week. As we're evolving the technology that makes our brand of Christie's far more valuable because it has the technology. It's also owned and operated by a brokerage company. So when we're meeting with the affiliates, we're still running and operating a brokerage and we can relate to them, and then we can plug in our marketing division, which is best in class, and our training and coaching and culture. So it's really an enormous injection of solid, valuable, intrinsic value surrounded and wrapped by the Christie's brand. So it's really very different from a Sotheby's franchise, Ingalls and Volcker, because we provide so much to the brokerage and we're actually communicating with them while we're also simultaneously using these tools to operate and grow brokerage.

00:25:37 - Bill Risser

Are there other opportunities out there for you to continue to expand?

00:25:42 - Mike Golden

Yeah, we think there's tremendous opportunities. I mean, particularly in the Christie's international real estate network. That's a heavy focus for us right now. That brand just resonates everywhere you go. And that, coupled with our technology and our platform, we feel is best in the business, without a doubt. So we see this tremendous opportunity to grow that network both throughout the United States and throughout the world. And we're heavily focused on growing that. In terms of growing our company owned base, that's a little bit more difficult, because that's all about the people that you're partnered with. If you look at our partners in Atlanta, partners in mean, we partnered with people we felt were the best of the best. And we only invested in those companies and brought them in under our umbrella because we knew that they would be great partners for us to work with long term. We wouldn't be interested in just buying a company where the leadership just wanted to kind of exit stays left, because then you don't know what you got. And we all know that the relationships and the culture and stuff is all driven by the local leadership. So for us, we'll always be, I think, seeking opportunities. But it's got to be the perfect right fit. It's not like you'll ever say, we want to own a brokerage in Kansas City and then go to Kansas City and find one. It's much more about finding the right fit and the right team to be able to work with to make it successful.

00:27:04 - Bill Risser

One more question before we wrap it up with the final question, but I have to ask the two of you, because you're so involved in what's going on in the tech side of things. What's the future of real estate tech look like?

00:27:17 - Mike Golden

Well, I could answer that question accurately for us, and Thad could probably answer this better than I can. But for us, we view kind of end to end, one stop shop solution for everyone, not just the agent. I mean, we originally built our technology around the agent running their business, and now we're integrating the consumer facing piece in so that a consumer can basically run their transaction from beginning to end. So for us, we think that that integrated one place to go to be able to do everything to make it as easy as possible. And as seamless as possible for the consumer and for the agent is ultimately the direction of technology for us anyway.

00:27:54 - Thad Wong

Yeah. At the end of the know, the partners that we have, the Christie's network and the app properties network, they are the local independent leader, which we always know gets the best agents. And that has that entrepreneurial spirit as opposed to having a corporation own all of the brokerages around the country, we feel like having independent owners and entrepreneurs. Owning the brokerage is far superior. So if you think about platform and as we grow each affiliate, and as we adopt and integrate platform into their brokerage, in a very short period of time, we're going to be affiliated with tens of thousands of closings annually. We'll probably get to 100,000 closings in a pretty short period of time. Once you have platform, our system integrated with those closings, the amount of value that you can bring, true value you can bring to the homeowner, whether it's through lowering the cost of homeownership, whether it's through the opportunities of travel, whatever it is, what the agent wants most of all, post closing is to give their customer additional benefits. And if we can make the agent more valuable post closing than they were pre closing, the likelihood of referral and repeat usage skyrockets. So having that communication and those tentacles in with the customers, all filtered in through the agent, as long as we get buy in from the agent and approval, the agent is going to give these benefits to their customer, which only makes our software more sticky. It only allows us to give greater benefit to the agent, which allows us to grow. So we feel that we have the best system, by far the best technology in America. And we don't need 1500 engineers, we only need about 25. And we'll be able to gradually scale that. And if we selectively partner with the best independents in each major market, we'll have the best agents with the best technology which is going to yield market dominance.

00:29:49 - Bill Risser

Wow, this has been great. We kind of went past the time I asked of you. So let me ask you the final question we've asked every guest since day one. What one piece of advice would you give a new agent? Just getting started in the business today.

00:30:03 - Thad Wong

Mine's the same as I always would say, which everything is relationship. And if you want to have as many relationships as possible, you need to be available 24 hours a day. If you're not available when someone calls you, trust me, you're replaceable and it's less convenient to call you. If you're not going to be there, call text, email. So 24/7 availability is probably your greatest value. That's free that you can provide when you first get started.

00:30:30 - Mike Golden

Yeah, and I 100% agree with that. I'd also say that if I give someone advice is a nothing beats hard work because I think if that and I look back at some of the successes that we had versus other people, it was more that we just worked harder. As that said, we were always available, we were always working. And beyond that, it's like a new agent with us. We just tell them to please engage. Engage with our systems, engage with our training and coaching team, create a plan for yourself and then keep yourself accountable and execute. There's nothing more valuable than hard work. And in our business you can be successful if you put the time and the energy, and if you do everything the right way every time and you are on top of it and you are consistent, you will be successful.

00:31:16 - Bill Risser

If someone wants to reach out to you, what's the best way for them to do that?

00:31:22 - Thad Wong

Wong@atproperties.com yeah, same for me.

00:31:27 - Mike Golden

Thadwong@atproperties.com love it. Yeah, exactly. Email mikegoldon atproperties.com we're always available.

00:31:39 - Bill Risser

Gentlemen, this has been wonderful. It was a little bit different for me having both of you here, but it was fantastic. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. Continued success with your companies.

00:31:48 - Mike Golden

Bill, thank you so much for having us. We really appreciate it. It's great meeting you.

00:31:51 - Thad Wong

Thank you.

00:31:52 - Bill Risser

Thank you for listening to the real estate sessions. Please head over to ratethispodcast.com re sessions to leave a review or a rating and subscribe to the Real Estate Sessions podcast at your favorite podcast listening app.